From Dyson to 10 Downing Street: How becoming Enemy#1 Changed this Social Entrepreneur's Life

Annie Yu WM: Welcome to Low to Grow, the podcast transforming life's toughest moments into personal motivation. I'm Annie, a Forbes under 30 technology founder whose entrepreneurship journey ran alongside a mental health awakening. In each episode, I sit down with inspiring individuals who have each faced incredible challenges, tackled it head on and emerged stronger on the other side. Together, we'll explore the stories, unpack the lessons that they have learnt, and also understand how they managed to turn challenges into opportunities for personal growth. Whether you're navigating uncertainty in your personal life or simply looking for motivation to keep going, this is your space for the honest conversations that you will want to hear. If this resonates with you, hit subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you know someone who's struggling, share this with them. You might just prompt them to take the first step towards better mental health. Now, let's dive in. Today, we're joined by Nav Sawhney, founder of the Washing Machine Project, a social enterprise bringing the world's first human-powered, flat-packed washing machine to people with low income and displaced communities. Inspired by his neighbor during his time volunteering in South India with Engineers Without Borders, Nav left his engineering career at Dyson to create a sustainable solution that empowers women who are often tasked with the back-breaking burden of unpaid labor such as hand-washing clothes. Since 2019, the Washing Machine Project has reached nearly 30,000 people worldwide, partnering with organizations like the Whirlpool Foundation and also the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in order to scale its impact. Nav and his team are on a mission to reach 1 million people by 2030, which starkly only represents 0.1 percent of the total problem. Nav, pleasure to have you on Low to Grow. You are obviously a humanitarian and today we're going to unpack a bit about how your personal challenges shaped your desire to make profound social impact. But before we start, who do you want to be listening to our conversation today?

Navjot Sawhney: Well, Annie, thank you so much for having me on. Really appreciate it. I'm excited to get into the conversation. I think for people listening to this or watching this, I want people who are interested in making a difference, making a positive impact in the world to know about this conversation. I want them to understand that small actions have big impact potential. And my story is of a story of someone that noticed a gap and decided to fill it. I know that there's probably millions of people out there that are seeing problems but don't know how to solve them and want to make the world a better place, but don't know how. And those are the people that I want to speak to in this conversation.

Annie Yu WM: Fantastic. I can't wait to delve into that with you, Nav. Let's start from the very beginning. Your family, your parents, they moved from unpartitioned India to the UK. And when you were younger, your father passed away when you were eight. And your upbringing was mostly from your mother and also your sisters, who clearly influenced your current work and your passion to give back to your community. How do you feel that these really challenging personal experiences in your youth shaped your current passion for what you do today?

Navjot Sawhney: Yeah, so my father took the journey of millions of people at the time of the Indian partition. They had a choice to stay in Rawalpindi, which is present-day Pakistan, or move south to what is India now. And he was very young at that age and he moved with his family with the only clothes on his back. And it really shaped the rest of his life. He really struggled with that. And speaking to his brother, who is now in his late 80s, there's a sadness when he speaks about that time. They always thought that they would go back home. And during that time, they always said to their friends, I'll see you later. But they never saw each other again. And this displacement was with and is with this generation for their entire life. You understand that. And there's an undercurrent of that through my life and my siblings life. And so when we see displacement in the world today, the only thing you can do is empathize, right? And I talk a lot about empathy. I always have a post it to remind me of being empathetic to people. And for me, displacement is something that really hits home and has formed a lot of my thinking as I grow into an adult. My mom's family also went through the same transition. My mom was a bit younger, so she was born in India. My mom came to the UK with only 10 pounds in her pocket. She gave up her fledgling career as an economist in India to then work at a builders merchant as an assistant. I mean, there's no disrespect to anyone doing jobs like that. But she was obviously really highly qualified for the role. But it's the only position that she had available to her. But she didn't complain. My mom, she just saved and saved. Eventually, she worked for the UK government, continue to save, continue to make sacrifices. She didn't eat out at lunch. She had packed lunch every single day. She used to make us popcorn if we wanted to go to the cinema. So embarrassing. We used to always use coupons everywhere. She'd never go on holiday. She'd missed her siblings' weddings. These types of decisions were really important because life got a bit harder. When my father passed away, I was eight. My siblings were under 15. My mum is an absolute rock star. She could have really gone off the rails, but she doubled down with love and kindness and made sure that she was investing in our education. For 40 to 50 years of work, she's now retired and really reaping the rewards of her labor, enjoying her time with her grandkids and loving life. For me, the theme of displacement, the theme of women empowerment run really deep within me and has formed a lot of my work today.

Annie Yu WM: Nav, what's the theme of displacement that really ran through your family and also into your life? Is that something that you were always conscious of, or did you reach a certain point in your life that really opened your eyes towards that and recognised that within yourself?

Navjot Sawhney: Yeah, I mean, there's loads of issues within our culture, excessive drinking, frivolous behaviours, anger, and these things come out in different ways. You see it, and then when you grow up, you can put two and two together. I had a real interest in displacement. I had seen wars across the world, and I didn't really match the two up, but I studied engineering. I went to one of the world's best graduate programs. I realised that I could do good with my engineering. I quit my job and I went to go work for free in India, and I became more rooted in my culture. Then I caught the bug of development, and I studied a master's in humanitarianism. It was then that I start connecting the dots of the history of displacement, and what are the reasons why it happened. That was the kind of aha moment that this makes sense. I was lucky enough to go to a lot of refugee camps around the world, and saw people's lived experiences, and sat down with them, and listened to them. A lot of the stories were very similar to my father's stories, and my uncle's stories of their displacement, and that's where the connection was made.

Annie Yu WM: Now, just kind of going back to your graduate program time at Dyson, that's a super prestigious graduate program for engineers, and I think from my experience, for a lot of immigrant parents who have just moved themselves and most of the children to a new country, they really want the children to have secure, stable careers with a clear paycheck every month, and a clear idea about their children, hence the family will be settled in that new place. For you to make that jump away from this career at Dyson, to do engineers without borders, which is an unpaid voluntary role, how did your family take that?

Navjot Sawhney: Yeah. I guess it's the same with you, Annie, right? Like, I'm sure there's a path laid out for you, right?

Annie Yu WM: Yeah, a path in academia. Really?

Navjot Sawhney: Yes. Yeah. So you kind of, you know, on reflection, you're lucky that you enjoy some sort of level of academia or, you know, some people don't. And for me, I think I realized that, you know, three years into my career at Dyson, I was, you know, every bit of good engineering that was basically making a vacuum cleaner for a rich person. I was fed up with that. I wanted to make something good that was impactful on someone's life, you know, something that moved the needle. And, you know, I wanted to help the planet, not hinder the planet. My thinking was that I could apply for this role at Engineers at Borders. It would make me, I'll have to quit my job. The news was so bad with my family. I was like enemy number one. I was like making the biggest mistake of my life. My mom said, I think you've lost your marbles. What have you worked so hard for? Go and come back because, you know, you need to get it out of your system. I remember even at that time, I emailed a few of my colleagues and tried to get a sabbatical to make sure that my job was there when I left to be super secure. They obviously didn't let me, but I had to make the leap because I was so unhappy. I was at such a low point in my life, you know, where, you know, I knew I wanted to help, but I just didn't know how to make it work. Sometimes in life, you have to make sacrifices. That was probably one of the biggest sacrifices that I've ever made. And I'm so lucky it worked out for me.

Annie Yu WM: When did that unhappiness at Dyson creep in, Nav? Was it after you've been there for a while? Or did you kind of go in it knowing that your heart wasn't fully in it?

Navjot Sawhney: Well, I think there's been multiple levels of unhappiness in my life, but my second and third year of Dyson were really, really tough because ultimately I don't think I was a good fit for the organization. And my morals were aligned to something different than making Wacking Kiddes. It was tough, you know, like I'm a really hardworking person, you know, I'm willing to put in the hours over and above, you know, at that stage in my career as well, I was very early on in my career, my boss would tell me to jump, I'd say, how high, you know, and I would just go above and beyond, you know, 50, 60 hours a week, so many sacrifices every single day. But yeah, ultimately, you know, there's only so much that one person can take before it keeps lingering at you, things get tough, you get snappy, start seeping into your personal life, and then starts consuming you. So yeah, there were times where I wouldn't go to social occasions, I would just do work. And I probably do that now, but probably for the right things, you know, and yeah, much, much, much more happier. But I'm so glad that I went through that experience, because if I didn't go through that experience, then I wouldn't be here. As Steve Jobs says, you know, there's loads of dots that you can connect in hindsight up to what leads you to the point that you are today.

Annie Yu WM: Nav, once you were in that really low point at Dyson, where your personal values and, I guess, more humanitarian aspect of the work that you wanted to do wasn't really present in your then job, were there any people that helped you or kind of like guided you through that process? Or was it something that you really went through yourself?

Navjot Sawhney: Yeah, unfortunately, I was surrounded by people that thought I was making a mistake. You know, since then, I've been so lucky to be surrounded by people that have absolutely like been behind me every step of the way with the Washing Machine Project. But that single decision was purely my own. Like no one around me thought that was a good idea. And I think, yeah, it's probably one of my loneliest points in my life as well. I think, you know, I was giving up everything, well paid job, my house, my surroundings, my friends to go somewhere where I really didn't know if it would work out. I think in general, the rule of thumb is that if it feels slightly uncomfortable or if it feels slightly, slightly away from the norm, like lean into it, because that's where your resolve will come, that's where the change will come. And there's been countless occasions since then, which I'm happy to talk about, where, you know, people have said that's never going to work or you shouldn't do that. And I said, you know, let's just try, you know, and leaning into the hesitancy or the loneliness and the fear of failure and just seeing how it goes. I think as entrepreneurs, you'd know as well, you know, that that kind of being comfortable with leaning into the idea of the unknown.

Annie Yu WM: The uncertainty, yeah, that's something we just have to live with on a day-to-day basis. I really like to embrace almost because otherwise it can really drive you into really dark places if you don't too long on it or kind of allow yourself to go down like a spiral, like a loop.

Navjot Sawhney: Yeah. Yeah.

Annie Yu WM: Just kind of accepting that uncertainty equals challenge. It's that problem and problems can be solved. It's just people and timing.

Navjot Sawhney: Yeah, it's true. And, you know, we've seen that time and time again where you get this analysis paralysis. You could look at a problem in a hundred different ways. The problem is still there, you know. At the end of the day, it's trying to understand the risk versus the reward. And it's just percentages really. And whether the appetite of risk at that point in time. I was ready for it though. I think three years at Dyson was more small enough for me to make the plunge.

Annie Yu WM: So, you know, it sounds like really, it's your three years at Dyson which you found lonely and challenging. That actually fueled your determination then to push through and really build something from the ground up because in the early days of building any company or any social enterprise or any organization or product, there's so much uncertainty. And if it's you starting from scratch, then you are going to have doubts in the really early days. Like, did you, well, I guess even now, do you still feel doubtful about the choice that you have made?

Navjot Sawhney: Yeah, absolutely no doubt of the choice that I made back then. There's obviously imposter syndrome that everyone feels. Is this the right path that we're going on? Could we do it in another way? But I'm lucky because I have a team of incredible people now that also are as passionate, even if not more passionate than I am, about The Washing Machine Project and our mission and vision. So, you know, it's a collective decision now, not just my own. But I do believe that being a founder is, you know, running an organization, probably one of the loneliest roles in the world, right? You know, like you're constantly being required to make decisions. You're in such intense conversations all the time. I often, when I'm done with the day or on the weekend, I'm just so tired of making decisions. I'm sure that you're the same. We're like, can you just decide for me? Speaking to founders, they feel the same way. I just feel really inspired by some of the bigger entrepreneurs that are massive revenue generating organizations, because I'd love to know how they do it as well.

Annie Yu WM: Going back to how The Washing Machine Project was born, I'm going to mention a name Divya. So that's their important name for you. Could you tell us about why that's so important and how that has played quite a big part in the beginning and also in the first product of The Washing Machine Project?

Navjot Sawhney: I landed in South India in October 2016, was making cook stoves for people who use solid fuel to cook their food. And every day was an amazing day at Prakti, the cook stove company. I would with my team come up with ideas on Monday, Tuesday, we would prototype that idea. Wednesday, we would put that prototype in the field for our users to test and by Thursday, we would already get feedback. And that kind of living lab, iterative learning, trying to understand what users liked about our product and what they didn't was phenomenal. And we would go through hundreds, if not thousands of prototypes in that way. And, you know, every idea was shit. You know, like people were really brutally honest about our work. But at the end of the day, we came up with one of the world's cheapest cook stoves, about $10.

Annie Yu WM: Wow.

Navjot Sawhney: And we made thousands of those cook stoves. So the work was amazing. And I chose to live in a village rather than, you know, a fancy place because I really wanted to experience the culture and the people that we were trying to design for. And I lived in this village for about a year and a year and a half. And it was phenomenal, you know, like such humble surroundings, you know, where there was no running water. Water was switched on for only 15 minutes in the morning. If you didn't have a generator in your house, you'd have frequent blackouts, sometimes for days on end, no power. The roles in the household between the matriarch and the patriarch and how people went about their daily lives, you know, this village had everything. And my next neighbor, a lady called Divya, became my best friend. Her Tamil was amazing. My Tamil was rubbish. Her English was amazing. And I spoke only English. So, you know, she was a, at that point, 20-something, stay-at-home mom who wanted to work, but just didn't have the time. She'd spend all of her waking hours on unpaid labor. She'd wake up, she'd forage for wood, she'd use the wood to cook her food, she'd stand in line for water, she'd use the water to clean the house. She would spend up to 20 hours a week, hand washing clothes on her hands and knees, back breaking work. And I said to Divya, I'll buy you an electric washing machine. What are you doing? And she said, I don't have a generator, there's no running water, so your electric washing machine won't even work for me. It was at that point the penny dropped for me. And I said, I'm going to make you a washing machine. And that was in October 2017. And I realized that this was a huge, huge issue, not only in the village, but in neighboring villages. And I spoke to so many people that were handwashing clothes, and they reported the same issues, time, water and effort, you know, back breaking, skin irritation, work. And I realized that this is a huge global problem. Over five billion people in the world today hand wash clothes. And I came back home, armed with that promise of making a washing machine for my next-door neighbor, Divya. And I started what is now called the Washing Machine Project.

Annie Yu WM: Wow, that's an incredible story. And how did you find, you know, that team of equally impact driven and ocean mission driven and people to work with you on the Washing Machine Project?

Navjot Sawhney: Entrepreneurship is really glamourized. So it's not, it's definitely not for everyone. And I de-risked my entrepreneurship journey. So I took up a job at Jaguar Land Rover to pay my bills, which was probably one of the best decisions I made because I had the most amazing, supportive team who loved the Washing Machine Project and supported me every step of the way. They would turn their heads every time I needed to work on something. My manager let me work remotely every time I needed to test a prototype in like a refugee camp in Lebanon. I was put in front of the CEO and the CFO as an example of making impact. And people wanted to support my mission by giving money to the Washing Machine Project. So JLR was a very nurturing environment. And my lesson to everyone listening and watching is find your community that will help support you and do that in the most sustainable way. You know, people say, like, quit your job, give it all. And I wouldn't personally. I was lucky. But I realized that there was people around me that were equally as frustrated with their corporate lifestyles, fed up of putting Excel spreadsheets together and wanted to support. So the first message I sent was to my friend Alex, who worked at Dyson at the time. I said, you know, Alex, I have this idea. I need someone to help me prototype it. And yeah, Alex and I made the first prototype in two days with stuff that we ordered online. We put it together and we went to Iraq for the first week and tested the prototype. It's called the Divya Washing Machine. And we tested with 79 years, ZD families. And so that was phenomenal experience because people wanted an alternative to hand washing clothes. We had data to prove it and we wrote that in our report. The report is still on our website to this day. And Oxfam saw that report and said, hey, we want to fund your next 50 washing machines. That was also a point where people said, you know, don't do it, don't take the money. We don't have a machine. You know, it's just a prototype. It's a big risk. And I said, I leaned in and I said, no, we should do it. We should do it. And we did. And we still talk about that to this day, more than five years, six years later.

Annie Yu WM: Wow. So again, you leaned into uncertainty. Again, you lean into a challenge and you were able to deliver on that. Building something like the Washing Machine Project, that takes a lot of time. It takes trial and error. What are some of the lessons that you've learned along the way?

Navjot Sawhney: My first big lesson is that, you know, don't be wedded to the solution. Be in love or fall in love with the problem that you're trying to solve. Be solution agnostic, because, you know, the solution will always change, but your problem will always stay the same, you know? And so find people that are equally as in love with the problem that you're trying to solve. And the second thing is, you know, find people that are equally as passionate as you are, and find out what their motivations are. And then we believe in collaboration, so finding a network of partners that are willing to fund you, who are equally as incentivized for your success, because it's their success. And I think this, you know, these three things are the first fundamentals of trying to create something really, really special.

Annie Yu WM: What does your mom say about The Washing Machine Project now?

Navjot Sawhney: My mom is probably one of my biggest fans now. She's from looking at every social media post, saying, Oh, Nav, I think you needed a comma here or a full stop here. She's always correcting the time post. You know, we were lucky enough to be featured on some of the biggest news outlets around the world. And she's always showing articles at the most random people, whether it's the post person outside, you know, delivering the mail or the car mechanic at the shop, or every family gathering. She's like, have you seen this new thing that's happening? But the real high was a few years ago, I was invited to a lunch at 10 Downing Street during the King's Coronation. And my mum, after, you know, 40 years of service with the government, she retired in the same month. And I had a plus one and I knew that it would be the best thing to do to bring her along. And it was probably the highlight of my time. And it was a really beautiful moment to stand on the front steps of 10 Downing Street with the Prime Minister, whilst my mum was retiring after so many years. But what was really funny, the Prime Minister was Rishi Sunak. And, you know, being the first Asian Prime Minister for the UK, it's a very proud moment for my mum. She said to Rishi Sunak, I'm so proud of you, you know. And Rishi Sunak said you should be proud of your son. And she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine. But I'm really proud of you. Which was hilarious.

Annie Yu WM: I feel like Asian moms have a lot of love to give. So I'm sure that she has space for both you and Rishi Sunak in her heart.

Navjot Sawhney: Exactly.

Annie Yu WM: We met when we were doing Web Summit. And I think you can keep up with what you've been doing. And it's so nice to see kind of like your project get recognition. And I think last month it was featured in Forbes as well. So that's a huge appellate. And, you know, you've also been recognized with huge awards like the George Bush Points of Light Award. How do you personally stay grounded and focus on the mission whilst receiving such recognition?

Navjot Sawhney: Yeah, I think surrounding yourself with people that were around before the Washing Machine Project is really important. So, you know, the people that I have around me are my friends and my family, who really genuinely don't care about the Washing Machine Project. You know, they care about my happiness. They were there before the Washing Machine Project. They'll be there after the Washing Machine Project. And for me, they just deeply care about my mood and my mental health and how I am, you know, and, you know, the awards are just pluses for me. So that's one thing. And the second thing is, you know, really centering ourselves around the user and the people that use our machines. So even in our logo, you can go online and see that there's a darkness coming into light and there's a heart in the middle. The heart is to signify Divya. And, you know, every single day we should remember Divya and the almost 50,000 people now that we've impacted. They are the people that we should be focusing on. And the awards are great. They give us more exposure, but we should just keep focusing on how do we make sure that we serve people like Divya.

Annie Yu WM: So keep focusing on the people that you are serving with your mission. How does Divya, the human, feel about, you know, having started this huge movement?

Navjot Sawhney: So after a seven year promise, I'm going to get a bit emotional talking about this, but after a seven year promise, we were lucky enough to go out and see Divya again and to gift her one of the machines that she inspired. It was a really deeply emotional time, you know, her daughter was there, her son was there, and my team were there, as well as Wellpool's team was there as well. Ironically, Wellpool's factory is only half an hour's drive from Divya's house, so it was a real serendipitous, full circle moment for us and talked about the journey that we've been on for the last six years. And she was really embarrassed, but really proud of everything that she's inspired. And she was thinking of ideas of making more impacts. And we were packing up our stuff and we were leaving. And as we left the house, she said, Nav, you've made the impact on my life, but there's millions of women just like me. So go find them because they need your support now. And that's what we're doing.

Annie Yu WM: The value of what you're doing with you and your team at the Washing Machine Project, and most of your volunteers, I was quite surprised actually when I read that 60% of the global population still have to hand wash clothes. And of course, most of that falls currently on girls and women. And if that takes up 20 hours every week, that's time taken away from other activities. So for girls, it could be education and for women, it could be earning income. The product that you have made, although it's a washing machine, it's like a household product, but the impact that it will have on each individual's life is huge. What advice would you give to say someone, whether it's someone who's been for a few years in their grad job, or someone who's been for like 10, 11, 12 years in a job, and they're just feeling a bit disconnected from what they're doing on a day-to-day basis, and they perhaps don't have people to talk to. What kind of advice would you give them?

Navjot Sawhney: Yeah, so I get this question all the time when I do talks around the world, and my answer is always the same, which is that find the thing that frustrates you, or find the thing that keeps you up at night. Find the thing that you've fallen in love with, because that's the thing that will keep you going. When you don't have any more money, or people are saying that this is a bad idea, that's the thing that you'll still keep pursuing, because it's deeper than anything. So what is it that really frustrates you in the world today? Whether it's, I don't know, sending a rocket to Mars, although I think I don't think we should do that, or creating an app for a homeless organization, or making a manual washing machine. Whatever it is that you want to get by, just be passionate about that. And if you're not, then find something else that really gets your blood boiling. Because that's the thing that you should be pursuing and you'll pursue sustainably. And then people around you, right? So if you're early on in your career and later, finding people that inspire you. So you inspire me a lot, for example. And whenever we talk, I talk about your academic career and the journey that you're on. And I find conversations with people like you deeply inspiring and, you know, what I want to be like in five years or ten years. And so that's what I did five years ago. I messaged people online and I said, you know, this is my idea. This is my journey that I've been on. This is what I have planned. I love what you're doing. I'd love to get your advice. And, you know, you bring people on your journey. And I think those two pieces of advice is what I'd give to people.

Annie Yu WM: I really like that advice. For me personally, when I was a bit younger, I would always feel very shy and anxious about cold calling or like reaching out to someone that I don't know. But then I actually realized people are generally really, really kind and really generous with their time. And if you have like a personal motivation, so that's really close to you, and you can communicate that to someone and you're asking for their feedback or their advice, then generally people are very giving in that sense. And I think the world by default is probably a lot kinder than people can think it is. Now, you know, before we wrap up, I'm going to ask you, our podcast staple, what do you think will enable more people to have better mental health?

Navjot Sawhney: I think it's important to send to yourself on taking time out to realize what is true to yourself and your own identity. I think it's important to understand yourself. And I do that by sitting with myself every single day for 10 minutes. In the morning, I meditate every single day, you know, get a clarity of thought. Make time for yourself. Just sit with yourself and really try and understand your thoughts and your thinking. And there's so much clarity with just sitting and being with yourself. And then being reflective, you know, whether that's journaling, documenting your journey and seeing how far you've come. That also helps with clarity of thought. So for me, I would not be able to get by in life if it wasn't for meditating or journaling. And I do that every single day. And I would advise that to every single person that is listening to this. Just try it. Meditation is just breathing, you know. And journey is just writing your thoughts down on a piece of paper. You never know where it leads to.

Annie Yu WM: Thank you, Nav. Nav, it's been such a pleasure having you on Low to Grow. Thank you for being so open and candid, you know, talking about your family's experience with immigration and also your own, I guess, search to find something and then to actually build something that rings quite true to your core values, known as your morals. Huge luck for the future of the Washing Machine Project.

Navjot Sawhney: Thank you, Annie. Appreciate it. And excited to see your journey too. I think you're amazing.

Annie Yu WM: That's a wrap for this episode of Low to Grow. If you learnt something today, help more people to find this conversation by hitting the subscribe button and leaving a review. Keep growing and until next time.