Navigating Grief and Growth with Amar Parmar: British Asian Community Builder

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: Welcome to Low to Grow, the podcast transforming life's toughest moments into personal motivation.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: I'm Annie, a Forbes under 30 technology founder whose entrepreneurship journey ran alongside a mental health awakening.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: In each episode, I sit down with inspiring individuals who have each faced incredible challenges, tackled it head on and emerged stronger on the other side.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: Together, we'll explore their stories, unpack the lessons that they have learned, and also understand how they managed to turn challenges into opportunities for personal growth.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: Whether you're navigating uncertainty in your personal life, or simply looking for motivation to keep going, this is your space for the honest conversations that you will want to hear.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: If this resonates with you, hit subscribe so you never miss an episode.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: And if you know someone who's struggling, share this with them.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: You might just prompt them to take the first step towards better mental health.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: Now, let's dive in.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: Today, I'm joined by Ammar Parmar, who started his career as a technology consultant.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: However, one of his New Year's resolutions to write online every day quickly turned into a meteoric rise, and he became the second fastest writer to hit 50,000 followers on Medium, trailing only behind Barack Obama.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: This success led Ammar to leave his career in tech consulting, to become the co-editor of the Entrepreneurs Handbook, which is a publication that has over a million monthly views.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: And now, today, Ammar is on a mission to foster a more connected and supportive ecosystem for British Asians.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: As a co-founder of the Bay HQ, Ammar is building a thriving community for high-growth British Asian entrepreneurs, operators, and investors.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: Ammar, pleasure to have you.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: Let me start by asking you, who do you think would benefit the most from listening to our conversation today?

 

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Amar Parmar: I think the people who are going to benefit the most maybe are those who put the most pressure on themselves and held them to really high standards.

 

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Amar Parmar: And sometimes, yeah, they beat themselves up too much.

 

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Amar Parmar: And hopefully, I was somebody who was like that in the past, and can be like that now, but maybe from my journey and the stuff I've been through, they can maybe cut themselves a bit slack and be able to be kind to themselves.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: I'd love to start with just a moment of adversity.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: What is one of the biggest personal lows that you faced?

 

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Amar Parmar: I'd say the biggest personal low would be my dad's passing.

 

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Amar Parmar: It was just now coming up to three years ago.

 

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Amar Parmar: And it's something I think always hits differently because there's been lows before that, there's been things I've struggled with.

 

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Amar Parmar: But then I think that grief cycle and losing somebody you love is very hard to compare it to anything else that I've been through.

 

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Amar Parmar: And you're never really prepared for it, right?

 

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Amar Parmar: And it's a weird thing of I've experienced lots before, but with people who I wasn't as close to.

 

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Amar Parmar: And you just don't know what to do, right?

 

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Amar Parmar: And it's weird because obviously it happens to everybody.

 

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Amar Parmar: Everybody is going to lose somebody at some point that they care about.

 

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Amar Parmar: But at the same time, it's just that feeling of being, one, a bit lost, but also you don't, you kind of start self-analyzing it.

 

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Amar Parmar: Am I dealing in the right way?

 

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Amar Parmar: And you start wondering, like, am I dealing how I should be dealing?

 

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Amar Parmar: What should I be doing?

 

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Amar Parmar: And obviously challenges as well is that everybody has their own opinions, and then they try to be helpful and give you advice, but sometimes that just creates confusion and frustration there.

 

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Amar Parmar: So I say that period immediately after my dad passed away.

 

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Amar Parmar: There was more shock in some ways, so it hit me at the time, but in some ways it was actually almost a year later when it really hit me harder, because I think that run up to the one year anniversary, and starting to realise I can't just outrun this, it's gonna take me over, and I would say that period from my dad's birthday is in June, and then the anniversary of his passing is in August, so I saw that as almost like a gauntlet, and that particular period is that everything just hit me really hard.

 

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Amar Parmar: I'd be, sometimes I'd be on the true poem and just be randomly like crying, and it's just trying to then like, how do you deal with that, right?

 

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Amar Parmar: But I'd say that period in particular was really difficult, and it's strange because it was almost a delayed, I tried to delay it as long as I could, and then it really hit me hard that year later.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: In that really difficult period, Amar, obviously there were a lot of emotions going through for you.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: What type of emotions or doubts in that period did you find yourself struggling with the most?

 

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Amar Parmar: One of the things which was really stupid in hindsight is that I really tied the success of the impact work I was doing to my dad's legacy, and how I try to justify it in my head is that I'm channeling my energy towards something that's positive, and I'm making a difference, and that's a good way to channel my grief.

 

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Amar Parmar: But what I was actually doing in some ways is putting unrealistic pressure on myself, because if my impact on my organization was directly tied to me honoring my dad, then how could I ever live up to that?

 

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Amar Parmar: That then started to eat away at me, like, am I fraud?

 

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Amar Parmar: Am I good enough?

 

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Amar Parmar: And it was those moments of doubt about...

 

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Amar Parmar: It's, I could never, there was no way ever that whatever I did could live up to the standard I was keeping myself to.

 

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Amar Parmar: And there was a lot of me just beating myself up about, okay, I should be better at this, I should be better at that, I should be stronger, I should be this, I should be that.

 

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Amar Parmar: But it was like all self-inflicted.

 

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Amar Parmar: It was just me for some reason deciding that I could somehow handle everything.

 

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Amar Parmar: And what would happen in that period in particular is that I would just, yeah, it would just be me attacking myself constantly when I was going to sleep, when I was alone.

 

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Amar Parmar: And how I tried to deal with that, again, not the best way, is by just being constantly busy.

 

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Amar Parmar: If I was always out and I was always with other people, then I didn't have that moment for my brain to attack itself.

 

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Amar Parmar: And if I was always exhausted, then when I got home, I would just fall asleep.

 

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Amar Parmar: And it's only fairly recently that I've started dreaming again, because what I did is get myself so busy.

 

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Amar Parmar: If I'm exhausted, I just knock out straight away.

 

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Amar Parmar: And I think that was a key thing, is I kept trying to avoid that emotion.

 

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Amar Parmar: And in the end, what happened is over that summer, I started just let it play out, where instead of avoiding that feeling, I just let into it and allowed myself to kind of go through all of those emotions and go through...

 

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Amar Parmar: Often, it was kind of just by following the threads through, you start to realize how irrational it is, because you can't...

 

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Amar Parmar: Like, I could no longer justify it.

 

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Amar Parmar: Whereas at the surface level, I could beat myself up.

 

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Amar Parmar: But once I would put up that thread and keep going down, and why do I think this?

 

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Amar Parmar: Why do I think that?

 

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Amar Parmar: You start to realize, actually, I would never treat a friend like this, or I'd never treat anybody else like this, the way I'm treating myself.

 

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Amar Parmar: And in a way, I think I just had to go through some of that pain to...

 

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Amar Parmar: It's like it was more painful in the moment, but by doing that, it freed me up for later on.

 

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Amar Parmar: If I didn't allow myself to go through the deeper level of pain, I just have this...

 

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Amar Parmar: Like I needed to get 10 out of 10 pain to stop myself from having 9 out of 10 pain all the time.

 

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Amar Parmar: And eventually, I was able to do it, too, is just take a week completely off.

 

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Amar Parmar: And that week I took off, I didn't take my laptop with me, I didn't take anything with me.

 

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Amar Parmar: I didn't tell people where I was going, there was no people on Instagram.

 

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Amar Parmar: Well, obviously my family knew where I was going, but it was more about, it was not about going on holiday for the sake of showing other people when going on holiday.

 

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Amar Parmar: It was just having a week just to myself to slow down and allow myself to relax.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: Earlier, you mentioned that you're building the Bay HQ.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: Could you tell us a bit more about how the Bay HQ came up?

 

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Amar Parmar: The idea actually came about while I was in hospital.

 

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Amar Parmar: So he had COVID and he was in hospital and ICU, it was meant to come out and then he passed away later.

 

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Amar Parmar: So I actually did tell my dad about the idea and he really loved it.

 

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Amar Parmar: And he just sold his company a couple months before.

 

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Amar Parmar: So the idea is in his retirement, he'd be able to help us build it, but it was meant to just be a little side project.

 

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Amar Parmar: So as you mentioned earlier about how a lot of what I did initially was, I grew in America very quickly and it was all online or remote.

 

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Amar Parmar: And I became more and more frustrated about how all the entrepreneurial network in the US, they all connect me to each other.

 

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Amar Parmar: I've got this network of people who like say, oh, you should talk to this person too, you should talk to that person, you should go to this resource.

 

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Amar Parmar: Whereas in the UK, I was like, I don't really know anybody in the startup space.

 

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Amar Parmar: And I didn't know how to get into it too.

 

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Amar Parmar: And I'm sure as many people maybe can relate, is that you might hear about an event, but if you don't feel like you're going to belong there, you just put it off and you procrastinate or you go and then you don't talk to anybody.

 

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Amar Parmar: I was also then seeing there's a lot of organizations really supporting different groups.

 

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Amar Parmar: So great organization for female founders, for black founders, for different groups.

 

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Amar Parmar: But I just felt like people from our background, an Asian background, were often fighting each other and putting each other down.

 

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Amar Parmar: And it was meeting my co-founder, where we basically just had a rant about this, about nobody helps each other, and like, why isn't there anybody doing this kind of work?

 

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Amar Parmar: And after doing that a few times, we eventually just decided, well, why don't we just think about it?

 

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Amar Parmar: And that was probably about June.

 

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Amar Parmar: I want to say, yeah, June, 2022.

 

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Amar Parmar: And then over the next few months, we just did some of that validation of asking other people, like, do you feel like this community needs to exist?

 

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Amar Parmar: Do you struggle with this?

 

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Amar Parmar: Is this a problem or not?

 

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Amar Parmar: And we then initially launched in October 2022, the podcast.

 

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Amar Parmar: And off the back of that, it then grew on top of that.

 

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Amar Parmar: But initially, it was just meant to be a little side project.

 

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Amar Parmar: It was never meant to be anything like what it is today.

 

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Amar Parmar: And I think a lot of my life, sometimes happy accidents of doing something, enjoying it, and then putting more effort into it, and then growing it bigger, rather than having a master plan, which I love to be able to put in the head, a master plan at the beginning.

 

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Amar Parmar: But we've had to make lots of mistakes, lots of failures to get to where it is today.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: The Bay HQ podcast, that's something that's very much a staple now, I believe, in the start-up ecosystem here, here in the UK.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: And I read online that when you did one of the Bay HQ's podcasts live recordings, it was actually done just a few days after the one year anniversary of the dad's death.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: What was going through your mind when that was happening?

 

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Amar Parmar: It's one of these things where, as I guess you know, with events, you tend to plan out in advance.

 

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Amar Parmar: So what I did at the time is, okay, I'll give myself the day, the anniversary day off.

 

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Amar Parmar: But I didn't have the foresight to realize actually it's going to really affect me quite a lot and it's not going to be one day off I need.

 

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Amar Parmar: It's probably going to affect my, my confidence quite significantly.

 

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Amar Parmar: And the interesting thing is that one misconception people have about me, is that I haven't actually spoken for that long.

 

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Amar Parmar: I haven't been doing public speaking very much.

 

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Amar Parmar: So I only started doing that when the Bay HQ started, so two and a half years ago.

 

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Amar Parmar: And even then we didn't have events for the first half a year.

 

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Amar Parmar: So that event that you're talking about there, that was only, I think, the third or fourth time I'd ever done public speaking.

 

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Amar Parmar: So at that point, I was much more nervous for these kind of events.

 

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Amar Parmar: And spending like the whole day in bed, like crying in the morning and then going to speak in front of people, which wasn't something I was confident doing at that time, was quite a big deal.

 

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Amar Parmar: So I remember what I was doing is I started to try and think about backups, right?

 

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Amar Parmar: So I was like, okay, if I can't do this, then who could take my place in it?

 

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Amar Parmar: But at the same time, the toxic mentality of like, no, it has to be me.

 

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Amar Parmar: And at the time as well, so my co-family was on holiday in that week.

 

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Amar Parmar: So if I got somebody else to do it, then would I regret it?

 

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Amar Parmar: And just, it was like, I would love to say that I had some kind of a framework of thinking through that clearly.

 

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Amar Parmar: It was, I was just basically just a mess and just like beat myself up.

 

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Amar Parmar: And then I did it in the end and it went fine.

 

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Amar Parmar: Like it was all happy.

 

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Amar Parmar: And the person I did it with as well, I said, Navjot Sourney, he's a really lovely person.

 

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Amar Parmar: He also lost his dad when he was quite young.

 

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Amar Parmar: So he could relate to that quite strongly and empathize with me as well.

 

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Amar Parmar: And that did make a difference to have that kind of support at the event.

 

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Amar Parmar: And I think I even, and I'm quite good at admitting my own vulnerabilities.

 

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Amar Parmar: So I think I even said at the event, like, this is what's going on at the moment, not feeling too great.

 

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Amar Parmar: So like, if I'm a bit off, like, that's why.

 

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Amar Parmar: And I think that kind of helps diffuse things.

 

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Amar Parmar: And I think what I see a lot of people make mistake about sometimes with these situations is that they try to hide if they're feeling whatever's going on in their lives.

 

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Amar Parmar: But then if people don't understand something's happening, they might judge you or they might think about it in a certain way.

 

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Amar Parmar: Because if they didn't have the information, they just can't make an accurate judgment.

 

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Amar Parmar: And they think, okay, what's going on here?

 

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Amar Parmar: Why are they acting in that way?

 

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Amar Parmar: Well, often what you find, and I think I found this in the last few years, is that when people know what's happening, they're often a lot more empathetic than you might think they'll be.

 

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Amar Parmar: And it's not about a pity party, right?

 

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Amar Parmar: But it's just like, if you're acting weirdly because something is happening inside your head, then people will be more forgiving for that.

 

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Amar Parmar: Whereas if you just seem to be acting off of them, they might misread that or misinterpret that.

 

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Amar Parmar: So sometimes, I think for that event in particular, the fact that I just opened and honest about it, it just took away my shoulders because I didn't feel like I had to pretend.

 

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Amar Parmar: I was just, okay, this is a situation, not feeling too great.

 

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Amar Parmar: So if I need to take a break at some point, I'm sorry, but that might happen.

 

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Amar Parmar: And I think that helped quite a lot.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: It's so true, isn't it?

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: I think generally a lot more people than we think are just kind by default.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: And a lot of the time people are ready to emphasize, as long as they know what's going on.

 

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Annie Wenmiao Yu: Ammar, have you always found it easy to be open and quite vulnerable to other people?

 

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Amar Parmar: Not at all.

 

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Amar Parmar: So I grew up in East London, so in Ilford, which is not necessarily famous at that time for being very understanding or thinking about other people's feelings very much.

 

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Amar Parmar: And then also family heritage wise, I'm from Punjab.

 

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Amar Parmar: And like Punjabi culture is very much worry, worry mentality.

 

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Amar Parmar: Everybody above my grandfathers in my family were all in the army, in the military.

 

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Amar Parmar: So the officers Punjabi culture is very much macho, strong, coming from East London, the way I grew up as well.

 

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Amar Parmar: Again, you don't want to show your vulnerability because that makes you weird, that makes you a target.

 

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Amar Parmar: And growing up, like there was no...

 

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Amar Parmar: I would say the person I am now compared to the person I was half my life ago is very different because I didn't grow up around that situation of understanding feelings or understanding things.

 

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Amar Parmar: You had to try to act in a way to protect yourself in some ways.

 

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Amar Parmar: You just wouldn't want to show weakness because that again makes you a target for bullying, it makes you all of those different aspects.

 

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Amar Parmar: And it's funny to think backward in some ways of just how you just don't know any better at the time, right?

 

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Amar Parmar: So I wasn't confident as a kid, I was very shy, I was very insular.

 

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Amar Parmar: And a lot of it was trying to keep your head, like, just not make yourself noticed in some ways, because that could then put you under, especially with social anxiety and things like that too, is that for me to now do what I'm doing, when you met me as a kid, you would not think I'd have the guts to do it.

 

00:15:42.300 --> 00:16:07.680

Amar Parmar: And even going for university, I think there was a lot of that unlearning that needed to happen, where as I met people from different backgrounds and people with different upbringings, to then just like be exposed to more, I think, in terms of that sense of like, okay, this is how people think in different parts of the world, obviously with international students, but not just international students, people in other parts of the UK, who grew up in maybe safer environments than I did, and how they thought about things.

 

00:16:07.680 --> 00:16:11.360

Amar Parmar: And yeah, I think it was a very interesting learning curve for me.

 

00:16:11.400 --> 00:16:18.560

Amar Parmar: But I will tell you, it was not until my mid 20s, where I started to drop that guard in some ways.

 

00:16:18.560 --> 00:16:30.980

Amar Parmar: And the reason why that came about is because some of my friends who I saw as very popular, very confident, I started to learn that actually they were going through some pretty serious things mentally.

 

00:16:30.980 --> 00:16:36.020

Amar Parmar: And some of my friends went anti-depressants, and some of them had been suicidal at some points.

 

00:16:36.020 --> 00:16:37.900

Amar Parmar: And I had never really known that.

 

00:16:37.900 --> 00:16:48.560

Amar Parmar: It was a weird period, I think, when I was about 25 or 26, but all of a sudden it found out like, oh, this happened to this person, this person in childhood, this person has been dealing with this trauma for all these years.

 

00:16:48.560 --> 00:16:58.260

Amar Parmar: And in a way, because of the way I was, they didn't necessarily feel comfortable talking to me about it, because I had never shown that side of myself, I guess.

 

00:16:58.260 --> 00:17:01.180

Amar Parmar: Well, I didn't know, I guess, that side of me existed at that point.

 

00:17:01.180 --> 00:17:07.700

Amar Parmar: And when you start to see, oh, okay, me feeling the way I do isn't weird or abnormal.

 

00:17:07.700 --> 00:17:13.500

Amar Parmar: Actually lots of people feel this way, but I would just raise in a situation where you just wouldn't really express it.

 

00:17:13.500 --> 00:17:24.400

Amar Parmar: And by starting to get exposed to more and more people expressing it, especially people that I cared about and I was looked up to, I respected, it starts to change my mindset there as well.

 

00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:31.380

Amar Parmar: Because I think when you're younger, you might see, oh, okay, in the news of this or that, that happens to people.

 

00:17:31.380 --> 00:17:40.900

Amar Parmar: But when you start to realize, oh, it happens to people like me or people like who I know, you start to realize actually these aren't just stories, there's actually all people behind those numbers.

 

00:17:40.900 --> 00:17:43.320

Amar Parmar: And I think that's what really changed for me.

 

00:17:43.320 --> 00:17:45.120

Amar Parmar: I started to read a lot more.

 

00:17:45.120 --> 00:17:55.160

Amar Parmar: I started to start that journey of self-discovery because it almost unlocked that gate for me to be able to think about myself, my weaknesses in that way.

 

00:17:55.160 --> 00:18:04.760

Amar Parmar: Whereas when I was younger, I just wouldn't, I wouldn't want to accept I'd want to do whatever I could to just show that I was okay and that I wasn't vulnerable and I wasn't weak.

 

00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:09.420

Amar Parmar: And that just came from the way, the environment I grew up in, I think, in many ways.

 

00:18:09.420 --> 00:18:14.500

Amar Parmar: But the empathy side of things is something definitely that grew in my late 20s.

 

00:18:14.500 --> 00:18:15.440

Amar Parmar: And it's still a journey, right?

 

00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:21.020

Amar Parmar: It's still, I think now I'm much more mellow and calm than I might have been at one point before.

 

00:18:21.020 --> 00:18:27.600

Amar Parmar: Because before I had to, there's much more reaction as if things are dangerous or like there's a panic reaction.

 

00:18:27.600 --> 00:18:31.200

Amar Parmar: Whereas now I'm just a lot more, hopefully calm and relaxed.

 

00:18:33.280 --> 00:18:39.880

Annie Wenmiao Yu: Ammar, when you're on this journey of self-discovery, what are things that you find help you along it?

 

00:18:39.880 --> 00:18:43.040

Annie Wenmiao Yu: Is it something that you prefer to do in solitude?

 

00:18:43.040 --> 00:18:49.560

Annie Wenmiao Yu: Or is it something that you think is a process that you share with your family and friends and people around you?

 

00:18:51.600 --> 00:18:52.400

Amar Parmar: I think it's both.

 

00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:56.740

Amar Parmar: So I think initially I had to do a lot of the work.

 

00:18:56.780 --> 00:19:07.820

Amar Parmar: I suppose I think for a lot of people you have to do the work internally first, because if you're not willing to accept that, then when you talk to other people, then you might be defensive and you might not listen to them.

 

00:19:07.820 --> 00:19:15.680

Amar Parmar: So you've got to be receptive to talking to other people and being willing to hear different viewpoints that maybe aren't going to be what you want.

 

00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:25.800

Amar Parmar: And if you go into, if you try to share your feelings with other people, but then you don't want, unless they validate those feelings and you're going to be upset, then it can be quite easy to then switch off.

 

00:19:26.620 --> 00:19:42.720

Amar Parmar: So I think initially there was a lot of me reading, me spending more time, so doing yoga, me doing things which I say meditation for example, but just getting used to just not having to be switched on all the time and allowing myself and my nervous system to relax.

 

00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:46.680

Amar Parmar: And during that time, talking to people helps.

 

00:19:46.680 --> 00:19:50.000

Amar Parmar: But I think it's like a, you can't do it one way or the other.

 

00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:52.960

Amar Parmar: I don't think you can only talk to other people and never do solitude.

 

00:19:53.100 --> 00:19:59.060

Amar Parmar: By just being the other way around, you've got to have, they're both just tools and you got to use the tools the best you can.

 

00:19:59.060 --> 00:20:12.200

Amar Parmar: I think one thing with the talking element of it is that one promise I made myself years ago is I'll never lie when people ask me how I'm doing, which I think I made it maybe a couple of months before my dad passed away.

 

00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:26.400

Amar Parmar: And then I really regretted making that promise to myself because then if you think about how many times in a day people ask you how you're doing, and when I was feeling really shit, then it's like, well, I went out, had to keep repeating why I feel bad and what's going on.

 

00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:36.420

Amar Parmar: It's a level of like trying to juggle how much of this is cathartic and how much of it is helping, and then how much is me reliving the trauma over and over again.

 

00:20:36.420 --> 00:20:43.020

Amar Parmar: Because I remember in that first in particular, I told so many people that story of like what happened to my dad and how it all happened.

 

00:20:43.800 --> 00:20:51.500

Amar Parmar: To me, it was very important not to bottle up because I've seen what's happened and it's very unfortunate thing of many men will bottle up their feelings.

 

00:20:51.500 --> 00:20:58.700

Amar Parmar: I think it's trying to strike that right balance of making sure that you don't hide your feelings and you get the feelings out there.

 

00:20:58.700 --> 00:21:08.520

Amar Parmar: But then also working, okay, is me repeating this now, is this helping me or is actually forcing me to relive something that maybe I don't need to relive right now.

 

00:21:08.580 --> 00:21:21.020

Amar Parmar: And knowing that balance, I think some guys now got over time where with different people and you can kind of greet people right about who's going to be receptive, who's going to be supportive, then maybe it's a good time to tell a story.

 

00:21:21.020 --> 00:21:27.860

Amar Parmar: But forcing myself to tell it to every single person wanted to know, I'm not sure that was the best thing to be too.

 

00:21:29.140 --> 00:21:30.520

Amar Parmar: It's an art form to it, right?

 

00:21:30.520 --> 00:21:48.220

Amar Parmar: But I think making sure that you don't bottle your feelings up, especially I think as a guy, especially from a guy from a background of people often, so traditional Punjabi thing is, instead of talking about your feelings, you just drink instead and then you die early, which isn't the best way to do things, which I think hopefully people know.

 

00:21:48.220 --> 00:22:01.420

Amar Parmar: But I say it in that sense, but it's very, very common for people from Punjabi backgrounds, from my heritage to just drink themselves in an early grave because they can't, they don't feel comfortable expressing their emotions.

 

00:22:01.420 --> 00:22:04.820

Amar Parmar: So yeah, like I said, I think it's both cases.

 

00:22:04.820 --> 00:22:11.820

Amar Parmar: It's that solitude, that quiet time, really helps me, but it's very important for me to have my sense checked, right?

 

00:22:11.820 --> 00:22:18.120

Amar Parmar: So it's really important for me to not get into logic spirals in my head that make no sense and that make me go negative.

 

00:22:18.120 --> 00:22:24.720

Amar Parmar: And that's why it's really important to have an outside perspective to just make sure to keep you on the straight and narrow.

 

00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:32.760

Annie Wenmiao Yu: If one of our listeners has recently lost a loved one or if they're dealing with grief and they're feeling quite stuck in that loop, what would you encourage them to do?

 

00:22:35.100 --> 00:22:39.120

Amar Parmar: I'd say remind themselves what they enjoy spending time with.

 

00:22:39.120 --> 00:22:41.060

Amar Parmar: And not feeling guilty about that, right?

 

00:22:41.060 --> 00:22:45.900

Amar Parmar: Is that anything like anybody who loved you isn't going to want you to be sad, right?

 

00:22:45.900 --> 00:22:48.500

Amar Parmar: And that doesn't magically make you better.

 

00:22:48.500 --> 00:22:54.260

Amar Parmar: But it means that if you can spend time doing things that make you happy, they're able to take your mind off things.

 

00:22:54.260 --> 00:23:05.180

Amar Parmar: So for me, for example, playing football every week with my friends, it was just an hour where I was distracted that enabled me to just get some energy, get some dopamine.

 

00:23:05.180 --> 00:23:10.140

Amar Parmar: And like obviously my dad didn't want me to play football and to go meet my friends, right?

 

00:23:10.140 --> 00:23:15.640

Amar Parmar: And at that beginning stage, I say right at the very start, is just take the pressure off yourself.

 

00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:16.380

Amar Parmar: It's not easy.

 

00:23:16.380 --> 00:23:17.540

Amar Parmar: There is no magic bullet.

 

00:23:17.540 --> 00:23:22.820

Amar Parmar: There is no one way to make it simple for you, right?

 

00:23:22.820 --> 00:23:25.740

Amar Parmar: One is if you need to get a therapist, then get a therapist.

 

00:23:25.740 --> 00:23:27.040

Amar Parmar: There's nothing, there's no shame in that.

 

00:23:27.180 --> 00:23:30.200

Amar Parmar: I did therapy at the beginning as well and that helped.

 

00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:37.280

Amar Parmar: I think in some ways the therapy help is also the fact that I was very proud of myself for going to therapy and taking that step.

 

00:23:37.280 --> 00:23:50.460

Amar Parmar: I think just taking that first step and just being able to have the guts for somebody who never thought they'd ever do therapy because of a closed mind latitude in many ways, to then go to therapy to me was very helpful just to show I am doing my best here.

 

00:23:50.460 --> 00:23:52.740

Amar Parmar: I am trying to do the right steps.

 

00:23:52.740 --> 00:23:55.600

Amar Parmar: I think that step of me doing that was really helpful.

 

00:23:56.880 --> 00:24:02.920

Amar Parmar: And what a lot of people say too is like sometimes the first therapy you try isn't necessarily the best one.

 

00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:06.120

Amar Parmar: So it's okay to try a few different ones.

 

00:24:06.120 --> 00:24:11.580

Amar Parmar: And yeah, like I said, in those very early days, it's like hang out with people who can make you laugh.

 

00:24:11.580 --> 00:24:15.840

Amar Parmar: There's some friends who even if you're sad, they can still somehow make you cheer up.

 

00:24:15.840 --> 00:24:17.240

Amar Parmar: Don't avoid them.

 

00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:25.540

Amar Parmar: And the other thing too, and I see this a lot with people who just lost somebody, is they overanalyze how people react to them.

 

00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:28.860

Amar Parmar: And nobody knows how to react to somebody who's dealing with grief.

 

00:24:28.860 --> 00:24:32.520

Amar Parmar: Like I was, I don't know what to do and I've dealt with it myself.

 

00:24:32.520 --> 00:24:34.680

Amar Parmar: And everybody reacts in a different way.

 

00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:38.680

Amar Parmar: You've got to communicate very clearly with people about what you're looking for in support.

 

00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:46.540

Amar Parmar: And if you don't communicate that, you can't be angry, you can't be upset with people if they don't help you in the way you want to be helped.

 

00:24:46.540 --> 00:24:51.620

Amar Parmar: And it can be that they don't have the time to support you in that way, or they're going through their own things at the same time too.

 

00:24:51.620 --> 00:24:59.680

Amar Parmar: But if you get angry at people for asking how you are, for some people, that might be a really useful question, for some people, that might be a really bad question.

 

00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:02.200

Amar Parmar: But for your friends and your family, they don't know that.

 

00:25:03.260 --> 00:25:05.580

Amar Parmar: You can't expect you'll see mind-reases.

 

00:25:05.580 --> 00:25:09.760

Amar Parmar: So I'd say, don't be afraid to get therapy if you think that's going to help you.

 

00:25:09.760 --> 00:25:14.040

Amar Parmar: Spend time with your friends, spend time doing things that make you happy, that make you laugh.

 

00:25:14.040 --> 00:25:17.840

Amar Parmar: I remember I used to watch comedy shows quite a lot as well, because it's just a release, right?

 

00:25:17.840 --> 00:25:21.140

Amar Parmar: You need to get that heaviness out of you somehow.

 

00:25:21.180 --> 00:25:24.540

Amar Parmar: And then the other thing is, communicate with people around you, what kind of support you need.

 

00:25:24.540 --> 00:25:28.680

Amar Parmar: Because some people, they just want somebody to be around, and they don't really want to talk.

 

00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:32.220

Amar Parmar: For other people, they want somebody to really give them advice and tell them what to do.

 

00:25:32.220 --> 00:25:34.320

Amar Parmar: It just all depends on your personality.

 

00:25:34.320 --> 00:25:39.980

Amar Parmar: And just don't get angry at people for trying to help, because we're all trying to figure out stuff out.

 

00:25:39.980 --> 00:25:46.180

Amar Parmar: And getting angry at people for not helping in the way you want to be helped, when you haven't communicated that.

 

00:25:46.180 --> 00:25:49.380

Amar Parmar: In my past, I feel bad about where I maybe got annoyed at them.

 

00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:52.540

Amar Parmar: I say, I didn't know, I didn't, why did I get annoyed at them?

 

00:25:52.540 --> 00:25:55.460

Amar Parmar: How were they meant to know what I needed at that time?

 

00:25:56.500 --> 00:26:07.760

Annie Wenmiao Yu: And back in that really difficult first year, what were the really helpful things that people around you did that really made you feel better, that allowed you to just carry out your day to day a bit more effectively?

 

00:26:09.080 --> 00:26:12.100

Amar Parmar: I think sometimes you're having fun and you're in a good mood in that day.

 

00:26:12.100 --> 00:26:17.120

Amar Parmar: But then if somebody asks you about it, and then you now have to tell the story again, it forces you out of your mindset.

 

00:26:17.480 --> 00:26:21.840

Amar Parmar: Whereas if some of my friends is just doing normal friend stuff.

 

00:26:21.840 --> 00:26:23.520

Amar Parmar: They're like, Oh, do you want to go and see this film?

 

00:26:23.520 --> 00:26:24.560

Amar Parmar: I'm like, Oh, do you want to go to this?

 

00:26:24.560 --> 00:26:25.800

Amar Parmar: Do you want to do that?

 

00:26:25.800 --> 00:26:33.960

Amar Parmar: And having the people around me who, they knew that maybe I was a bit sad or maybe I wasn't in the best mood, but we hung out anyway.

 

00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:35.880

Amar Parmar: That was really helpful for me, I think.

 

00:26:35.880 --> 00:26:41.560

Amar Parmar: And there's people who didn't have a high expectation to think, is it Winnie the Pooh is a classic one, right?

 

00:26:41.840 --> 00:26:50.680

Amar Parmar: There's Eeyore, where even though Eeyore is sad all the time, they all still hang out with him, and they all still include him where they can.

 

00:26:50.680 --> 00:26:56.680

Amar Parmar: And I think that's really important too, about just being out there and just getting people, people still inviting you.

 

00:26:56.680 --> 00:27:02.900

Amar Parmar: Maybe that you're not in a good mood, you don't want to go, but the fact that people are inviting you and people are trying to include you, I think is really important.

 

00:27:02.900 --> 00:27:09.080

Amar Parmar: The other big thing for me is the physical side, where if somebody gives you a hug or somebody gives you something like that, that really helps me.

 

00:27:09.080 --> 00:27:15.740

Amar Parmar: Because sometimes I feel like even now, it's like I don't know if my shoulders are tense, but that really releases things for me, right?

 

00:27:15.740 --> 00:27:22.700

Amar Parmar: Where people are willing to just like, I don't necessarily want to talk about it sometimes, especially I think as the year went on.

 

00:27:22.700 --> 00:27:28.600

Amar Parmar: But if some people just give me a big hug and just make me feel relaxed, that would really help too.

 

00:27:28.600 --> 00:27:33.340

Amar Parmar: Because there is nothing necessarily people can say to convict things, right?

 

00:27:33.340 --> 00:27:38.440

Amar Parmar: They can't magically make you better, but just showing they care and you appreciate that, right?

 

00:27:38.440 --> 00:27:51.040

Amar Parmar: If you know people care and people are willing you and supporting you, and just showing that support in whichever way they can, I think makes such a difference, but also not forcing you to relive it and forcing you to talk about it.

 

00:27:51.040 --> 00:27:53.720

Amar Parmar: It's quite helpful too.

 

00:27:53.720 --> 00:28:00.960

Annie Wenmiao Yu: That was quite a profound experience in your life, and it was also the catalyst for personal change and personal growth as well.

 

00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:06.760

Annie Wenmiao Yu: How do you feel that your own definition of success has been changed because of that experience?

 

00:28:09.520 --> 00:28:20.960

Amar Parmar: Success is something which I think I find really interesting, and I often ask people as well about how they consider success and ambition, because in many ways, and it's what I do, I'm exposed to so many incredible people.

 

00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:29.700

Amar Parmar: Obviously, you've been on the podcast, and if I'm constantly meeting people who are doing incredible things, I think there's one or two ways that can go.

 

00:28:29.700 --> 00:28:41.460

Amar Parmar: Either I can feel really bad about myself that I'm not able to do things that other people can do, but what I've also been able to realize through this work is that all of those people I meet who are doing incredible things, they're just normal people.

 

00:28:41.460 --> 00:28:46.460

Amar Parmar: They're just like me, and they've got different skill sets, they've got different experiences in life.

 

00:28:46.460 --> 00:28:52.780

Amar Parmar: But actually, we can all like, if I set my mind to something, then I can do it too.

 

00:28:52.780 --> 00:29:06.480

Amar Parmar: And with this element of what success means to me now, I would say before, maybe I was chasing more external validation until my dad passed away, where I cared more about, okay, do people like me?

 

00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:09.040

Amar Parmar: Does, am I getting this or that?

 

00:29:09.040 --> 00:29:10.560

Amar Parmar: Whereas now I just don't care.

 

00:29:10.560 --> 00:29:14.780

Amar Parmar: And there's elements of what I do, which is a means to an end, right?

 

00:29:14.780 --> 00:29:21.000

Amar Parmar: So the more followers I have, the more people will pay attention to my message, the more people I can help from a message.

 

00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:24.300

Amar Parmar: But me having followers doesn't give me self-validation.

 

00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:35.780

Amar Parmar: And I think that's changed quite a lot because in a way, sometimes success to me before was an external, how do I show other people I'm successful?

 

00:29:35.780 --> 00:29:39.300

Amar Parmar: Whereas now it's more how I view myself.

 

00:29:39.300 --> 00:29:42.040

Amar Parmar: Do I feel like I'm doing things with integrity?

 

00:29:42.040 --> 00:29:43.580

Amar Parmar: Am I doing it ethically?

 

00:29:43.580 --> 00:29:46.060

Amar Parmar: Am I doing it in a way that I believe in?

 

00:29:46.060 --> 00:29:47.780

Amar Parmar: Am I doing things because I want to do them?

 

00:29:47.780 --> 00:29:52.400

Amar Parmar: Or am I doing it because I feel like I should or because other people want me to?

 

00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:53.840

Amar Parmar: And that's not perfect, right?

 

00:29:53.840 --> 00:29:55.960

Amar Parmar: But it's always different things I'm working on.

 

00:29:55.960 --> 00:30:06.760

Amar Parmar: But I say for me now success is am I living life in a way that gives me joy and makes me happy and isn't about how I can impress other people?

 

00:30:06.760 --> 00:30:13.160

Amar Parmar: And I think there's too many people in life living their life to impress other people who just don't think of them very much.

 

00:30:13.160 --> 00:30:20.460

Amar Parmar: Like most people aren't spending all their time thinking about you, but you're spending all of your time thinking about how to impress everybody else.

 

00:30:20.460 --> 00:30:34.460

Amar Parmar: And when you start to realize it doesn't really matter and to think, I always think back to when my dad passed away, the messages from like letters and stuff was your dad like helped me keep a roof over my kid's head.

 

00:30:34.460 --> 00:30:37.940

Amar Parmar: Your dad was the one who helped me keep food on the table, right?

 

00:30:37.940 --> 00:30:40.120

Amar Parmar: And I didn't know that until he passed away, right?

 

00:30:40.120 --> 00:30:45.140

Amar Parmar: I didn't know half these people who come out and said, your dad mentored me, your dad gave me this opportunity.

 

00:30:45.140 --> 00:30:48.100

Amar Parmar: Because my dad didn't care about people knowing that he'd been doing that.

 

00:30:48.100 --> 00:30:54.280

Amar Parmar: And that was a big thing that stood up to me is that I've got different skill sets, my dad, right?

 

00:30:54.280 --> 00:31:04.040

Amar Parmar: Is that the narrative of what I'm doing means that the more following we have, the bigger exposure we have, the more we can help people because that's the method in which I'm doing it.

 

00:31:04.040 --> 00:31:08.980

Amar Parmar: But at the same time, it's not about the more followers you have, is the more important I am.

 

00:31:08.980 --> 00:31:18.360

Amar Parmar: It's more more followers I have, the more when I share an episode, for example, sharing your story, the more people I can get to see your story and the more people I can help.

 

00:31:18.360 --> 00:31:27.460

Amar Parmar: And I think that's a big thing is whatever you're doing in life is like, are you doing it because you want other people to think you look good, or are you doing it because you think you're doing good?

 

00:31:27.460 --> 00:31:33.400

Amar Parmar: And I think happiness comes more when you're doing the latter rather than the former.

 

00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:45.420

Annie Wenmiao Yu: Ammar, I think that is so profound, losing that sense of self and that sense of ego, and really then just tuning in to what really uses your natural skill sets and actually what brings you happiness.

 

00:31:45.420 --> 00:32:00.640

Annie Wenmiao Yu: I'm really, really, really happy to hear that you've come out so much stronger after these experiences, and I do wonder, you know, if your dad could see the work that you've done with the Bay HQ today, what do you think he would say?

 

00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:08.220

Annie Wenmiao Yu: And also, what criticism or, I guess, constructive criticism would he give you and your colleagues?

 

00:32:10.320 --> 00:32:11.420

Amar Parmar: He criticizes our accounts.

 

00:32:11.420 --> 00:32:12.280

Amar Parmar: My dad is an accountant.

 

00:32:12.280 --> 00:32:16.140

Amar Parmar: He definitely criticizes our accounts and what we're doing with taxes because we have no idea what we're doing.

 

00:32:16.140 --> 00:32:21.400

Amar Parmar: And we're very lucky now that we've got people helping us out with that because that's like a nightmare.

 

00:32:22.500 --> 00:32:29.320

Amar Parmar: And the other thing he really criticized me for too, is that I always say this too, is my dad didn't really ever care about my success.

 

00:32:29.320 --> 00:32:30.500

Amar Parmar: He'd always be happy for me, right?

 

00:32:30.500 --> 00:32:32.240

Amar Parmar: Be my biggest cheerleader.

 

00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:36.020

Amar Parmar: There'd been a lot of celebratory dinners I've missed out on because he's not here, right?

 

00:32:36.020 --> 00:32:43.460

Amar Parmar: Whenever something happened good for us or for my mom or for him, then we'd have a family dinner together as a celebration.

 

00:32:43.520 --> 00:32:48.400

Amar Parmar: But what he'd really picked me out on is that I worked too hard and I put too much stress on myself.

 

00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:53.840

Amar Parmar: So he'd be more telling me off for how much I work and I'm not looking after myself.

 

00:32:53.840 --> 00:32:57.460

Amar Parmar: Because I would say as well, he cared more about me than he cared about my success.

 

00:32:57.460 --> 00:33:08.060

Amar Parmar: And I think there's a lot of people who, when it is sometimes maybe it's an Asian mentality too, of they think what's going to make their parents happy is their success.

 

00:33:08.060 --> 00:33:11.800

Amar Parmar: But if their parents really care about them, what they really care about is, are you happy?

 

00:33:12.380 --> 00:33:13.160

Amar Parmar: Are you well-fed?

 

00:33:13.160 --> 00:33:14.400

Amar Parmar: Are you looking after yourself?

 

00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:21.100

Amar Parmar: And that's a bit where he's definitely would be telling me off right now is that I'm not doing enough to look after myself.

 

00:33:21.100 --> 00:33:24.600

Amar Parmar: And I'm trying my best to swing back towards that.

 

00:33:24.600 --> 00:33:29.020

Amar Parmar: But he'd definitely be on my case about that and be like, oh, you should be working less.

 

00:33:29.020 --> 00:33:30.560

Amar Parmar: Why are you working so much for?

 

00:33:30.560 --> 00:33:33.360

Amar Parmar: Which may be opposite of what people might expect.

 

00:33:33.360 --> 00:33:40.020

Amar Parmar: And I think in terms of what he'd be proud of, I think, I always think in a way he was already proud of me, right?

 

00:33:40.280 --> 00:33:42.160

Amar Parmar: Before Bay Hq existed.

 

00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:45.900

Amar Parmar: And that's one of the mentalities that I had to lose after that first year.

 

00:33:45.900 --> 00:33:49.200

Amar Parmar: In that first year, it was, I would tell people that same thing, right?

 

00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:50.820

Amar Parmar: He didn't care about my success.

 

00:33:50.820 --> 00:33:52.500

Amar Parmar: But I wouldn't really believe in my head, right?

 

00:33:52.500 --> 00:33:56.200

Amar Parmar: In my head, I'd still be beating myself up.

 

00:33:56.200 --> 00:34:00.060

Amar Parmar: And after that first year, I really started to realize, why am I doing this to myself?

 

00:34:00.060 --> 00:34:07.100

Amar Parmar: My dad would be more angry at me for how much I'm burning out than for what impact I'm making.

 

00:34:07.100 --> 00:34:11.560

Amar Parmar: He'd be happy about the stuff we're doing and he'd be happy about the impact we've made.

 

00:34:11.560 --> 00:34:19.740

Amar Parmar: I think it would have been able to really help in terms of the financial side and the structuring side and being a bit less chaotic.

 

00:34:19.740 --> 00:34:24.540

Amar Parmar: I think if he was around guiding us, there'd be a lot less chaos than there is.

 

00:34:24.540 --> 00:34:26.140

Amar Parmar: But I've had to learn the hard way, right?

 

00:34:26.140 --> 00:34:29.900

Amar Parmar: And I always think this is one of the challenges I've had, especially in the lower point.

 

00:34:29.900 --> 00:34:33.820

Amar Parmar: So more recently, my granddad passed away.

 

00:34:33.820 --> 00:34:36.820

Amar Parmar: So my mom's dad passed away in October last year.

 

00:34:36.820 --> 00:34:38.080

Amar Parmar: And that was a really tough time as well.

 

00:34:38.200 --> 00:34:41.140

Amar Parmar: And I thought, I know so many incredible people.

 

00:34:41.140 --> 00:34:47.200

Amar Parmar: But the only person I could fully trust and who I wanted to talk to at that point was my dad.

 

00:34:47.200 --> 00:34:54.100

Amar Parmar: It was a tough period for about, say, a month or so last year, where there's all these pressures and all these different places.

 

00:34:54.100 --> 00:34:57.920

Amar Parmar: And I still didn't know who to turn to, where, yes, I have inspiring entrepreneurs.

 

00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:00.620

Amar Parmar: Yes, I have people that have done incredible things.

 

00:35:00.620 --> 00:35:01.860

Amar Parmar: But they weren't my dad, right?

 

00:35:01.860 --> 00:35:07.880

Amar Parmar: And my dad would be the one who I could talk to and who I could go through that process with.

 

00:35:08.520 --> 00:35:17.100

Amar Parmar: And I remember just being at that time, really feeling that loss compounded because it's like, I don't have him to talk to about this.

 

00:35:18.880 --> 00:35:27.020

Amar Parmar: In some ways, it's just, I had, there was a level of, I was independent, I was doing my thing, I lived in my own place, whatever.

 

00:35:27.020 --> 00:35:31.200

Amar Parmar: But I always had an escalation point and shit really hit the fan.

 

00:35:31.200 --> 00:35:33.420

Amar Parmar: I could go to my dad and just be like, okay.

 

00:35:33.420 --> 00:35:36.120

Amar Parmar: And my dad was very level headed.

 

00:35:36.500 --> 00:35:39.740

Amar Parmar: And no matter how stressed I ever was, he'd be like, oh, it's fine.

 

00:35:39.740 --> 00:35:46.240

Amar Parmar: I'm just, I needed that kind of energy, I think would be something which was really helpful to me.

 

00:35:46.240 --> 00:35:50.340

Amar Parmar: And I'm trying to be able to self-regulate that myself.

 

00:35:50.340 --> 00:35:55.920

Amar Parmar: But yeah, whenever I would be stressed, I'm like, oh, stop like, you're being overdramatic, it's completely fine, you'll work it out.

 

00:35:55.920 --> 00:36:00.800

Amar Parmar: And to have somebody believe in you in that way, which is a massive difference maker for me.

 

00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:03.140

Annie Wenmiao Yu: Ammar, your dad sounds like a wonderful person.

 

00:36:03.140 --> 00:36:05.200

Annie Wenmiao Yu: He sounds like a very straight talking dad.

 

00:36:05.680 --> 00:36:09.920

Annie Wenmiao Yu: And I think they are, you know, some of the best sources of support in our lives.

 

00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:15.500

Annie Wenmiao Yu: And I think from our conversation, the values that your dad has instilled in you is pretty clear.

 

00:36:15.500 --> 00:36:19.680

Annie Wenmiao Yu: And I'm pretty sure about he'd be extremely proud of you and what you've achieved as well.

 

00:36:19.680 --> 00:36:31.400

Annie Wenmiao Yu: And also the impact that you're having on a lot of other people, you know, they could be founders, they could be investors, they could be people working and thinking about switching a career or just people dealing with a really difficult moment in life.

 

00:36:31.400 --> 00:36:38.140

Annie Wenmiao Yu: I really appreciate you, you know, being so honest and open and being so vulnerable as well.

 

00:36:38.140 --> 00:36:46.880

Annie Wenmiao Yu: You mentioned, you know, there could be a trend of toxic masculinity, especially amongst younger men.

 

00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:53.100

Annie Wenmiao Yu: And I think you sharing your own experiences of, you know, all the different things that happen to you in your personal life and your professional life.

 

00:36:53.100 --> 00:36:57.740

Annie Wenmiao Yu: I think that will be quite an important story for people to hear.

 

00:36:57.740 --> 00:37:01.700

Annie Wenmiao Yu: Now, before we wrap up, I'm going to ask you our podcast staple.

 

00:37:02.260 --> 00:37:07.580

Annie Wenmiao Yu: So Amar, what do you think will enable more people to have better mental health?

 

00:37:08.600 --> 00:37:17.540

Amar Parmar: I would say a huge thing is realizing you're not alone, that everybody struggles and everybody has moments that are up and down.

 

00:37:17.540 --> 00:37:28.860

Amar Parmar: And if more people can listen to your podcast, listen to other people's stories, you just start to beat yourself up less because you realize actually, this isn't something wrong with me.

 

00:37:28.860 --> 00:37:30.880

Amar Parmar: It's not that I'm faulty in any way.

 

00:37:31.060 --> 00:37:33.400

Amar Parmar: It's just that everybody has ups and downs.

 

00:37:33.400 --> 00:37:40.520

Amar Parmar: And even the strongest people you know, the most successful people you know, they also have doubts and they also have worries and they also have anxieties.

 

00:37:40.520 --> 00:37:51.140

Amar Parmar: And when you start to realize that everybody you look up to has gone through hard moments too, you then hopefully beat yourself up less about what you're going through at the time as well.

 

00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:54.640

Annie Wenmiao Yu: Ammar, thank you very much for sharing that.

 

00:37:54.640 --> 00:37:57.960

Annie Wenmiao Yu: And again, it was such a pleasure to be able to speak to you today.

 

00:37:57.960 --> 00:37:58.600

Amar Parmar: Thanks for having me.

 

00:38:00.840 --> 00:38:04.120

Annie Wenmiao Yu: That's a wrap for this episode of Low to Grow.

 

00:38:04.120 --> 00:38:12.060

Annie Wenmiao Yu: If you learned something today, help more people to find this conversation by hitting the subscribe button and leaving a review.

 

00:38:12.060 --> 00:38:14.020

Annie Wenmiao Yu: Keep growing and until next time.